DB Cooper Boat Tours to Visit Tina Bar and PDX

By Bruce A. Smith

AHOY, all DB Cooper enthusiasts! You will have a chance to sail on the Columbia River past the primary DB Cooper landmarks next Saturday and Sunday, June 29-30. This includes Tina Bar, where some of the ransom money was found in 1980, and Portland Airport where the skyjacking commenced.

Leaving from Tomahawk Island and the Jantzen Beach complex just north of Portland, Oregon on the I-5, the voyage – on a pontoon boat skippered by a licensed and Coast Guard-certified captain – will first motor near Portland International Airport, which is where this iconic skyjacking started on November 24, 1971. Since then, nothing definitive from the hijacking has ever been found except for three bundles of twenties from Cooper’s $200,000 ransom, which was found in 1980 at the trip’s next stop – Tina Bar.

Each sailing will be hosted by noted DB Cooper researcher and author, Eric Ulis. Due to Coast Guard regulations, only six passengers will be allowed on board each trip, giving each excursion an intimate opportunity to voice one’s opinions about this unique slice of American history and to hear Ulis’ considered responses.

Sailings begin at 10 am, launching from the Yacht Harbor dock, and last for approximately 75 minutes. Subsequent sailings are at 11:30 am, 1 pm, 2:30 pm, and 4 pm. Cost is $49.

Because of snafus with Coast Guard regulations, these boat tours were postponed from their original dates of June 22-23, and the thirty-seven folks who signed up for those sailings will be able to shove-off next weekend at the “early-bird’ rate of $35. The Coast Guard requirements have added hundreds of dollars to the expense of the tour, thus necessitating an increase in ticket prices.

In addition, the boat will not be able to land at Tina Bar, but passengers will be able to see exactly where the money was found, a location that has been lost through the decades inexplicably until Ulis’ meticulous research has identified the convergence of old jeep trails along the shoreline and triangulated them to FBI pictures from the money retrieval during their dig from February 12-14, 1980. This was two days after initial discovery by Brian Ingram and his family on a Sunday picnic.

Additional information can be gained at https://DBCooperBoatTour.com .

Pictured below is Eric Ulis, right, standing with Mark Metzler, (c), and Bruce A. Smith, (l) at the Victor-23 pub in Vancouver, WA during the 2018 DB Cooper Conference.

Conference, 2018, Eric, r, Mark, c, BAS, l at V-23

Note: UPDATE June 30, 2019

The Boat Tours for June 29 have been canceled, and all tours will be held on Sunday, June 30th. In addition, Eric has decided to make the sailing free, thus releasing him from governmental oversight and regulations. As a result, the need for a Coast Guard-certified skipper is canceled. As a result, I will not be participating in this adventure.

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122 Responses to DB Cooper Boat Tours to Visit Tina Bar and PDX

  1. Marla says:

    Very cool, guys. With Bruce Smith aboard, Mr. Ulis can really entertain his visitors. Hope it’s a smashing success.

  2. brucesmith49 says:

    I’ll be on the 4 pm boat on Saturday. Afterwards, the Victor-23 Tavern in Vancouver. Hope to see you there.

  3. Eric Ulis says:

    Daily DB Cooper Bite. I discuss my impressions of the Tena Bar area after my latest visit.

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DBCooperChannel

  4. FLYJACK says:

    Found something interesting…

    The FBI files show that Cooper used two matchbooks.. One his and one supplied by Tina. Tosaw’s book distinguishes further. According to Tina the matchbook Cooper had said “Earn a High School Diploma” and Tina went to grab company matches from a cabinet.. Cooper recovered and took the first empty matchbook. Sky Chef supplied catering for flights..

    That “suggests” the Sky Chef matches did not come from Cooper at all but were grabbed by Tina on the plane.

    • Daniel meyers says:

      So did Cooper keep the matchbooks? The reason that I am asking is if it’s in the evidence file. If they have them it could be checked for DNA.

  5. brucesmith49 says:

    Thanks, Fly. I was thinking of you this week as I departed JFK – after seeing Mom for her 95th birthday – and saw a huge “Sky Chef” scissor lift loading up the galley of an American Airlines 757. The Chef has come a long ways since matchbooks and cheeseburgers at LGA.

  6. FLYJACK says:

    Also from Tosaw’s book..

    Cooper had 2 drinks.

    Money in packets of $2000 strapped in PAPER BANDS and some in addition had rubber bands, corroborates Tina, H and Bank letter to FBI..

    Cooper offered 2 packets of money to stews, other than Tina.

    Cooper demanded flaps down but flight ops was calculating range and they went back and asked Cooper, he then said 15 degrees.

    Soderlind suggested SF or LA, and a second stop in Yuma.. and “Cooper was advised that it wasn’t necessary for the plane to stop anywhere in the US, but in any event he did not want to stop at either SF or LA because those cities were too big.” Reno was suggested by Soderlind and Cooper agreed.

    Also,,,
    L55376548B was the bill on the top one of the of the packets the Ingrams had that Ralph Himmelsbach Id’d as matching the FBI list.

    This top bill is NOT blackened, if the FBI did use Silver Nitrate to fingerprint bills they would have fingerprinted this bill, the top one, they didn’t. There was no record of SN being used and this bill would have been the primary target for fingerprinting.

    Why wasn’t this top bill fingerprinted??? Why would the FBI SN fingerprint internal bills???

    • Johnnie Greene says:

      FYI. Heard Robert Blevins might try to poach a free ride on one of Eric’s tour boats this weekend. Heads up!

    • FLYJACK says:

      Tosaw also claimed only two packets had rubber bands..

      If true, that could indicate the three packets were from one bundle.

  7. Eric Ulis says:

    Daily DB Cooper Bite. I discuss Bachelor Island and the Ridgefield National Wildlife Refuge.

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DBCooperChannel

    • FLYJACK says:

      The FBI walked back the Cowlitz Sheriff claims to say they could NOT confirm the Placard was from Norjak. Evidence suggests it is unlikely.

      The wind was NOT a fact, according to FBI docs it was an estimate based from Portland and Salem averaged over an hour. Wind data closer to the area and jump zone have winds from the SSE to S.

      Robert Nicholson’s placard drift calculations are wrong.

      The flight path is backed up by the AF, F106 Pilots, Boeing, NWA and ATC….

      The TBAR money being found on TBAR doesn’t mean Cooper landed nearby and buried it there, that is poor logic.

      Eric’s confirmation bias has ignored and distorted facts to push his extremely speculative theory. The premise for a western flightpath is about as weak as you can get.

  8. Eric says:

    Daily DB Cooper Bite. I discuss some of the discrepancies in the case.

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DBCooperChannel

  9. Eric Ulis says:

    Daily DB Cooper Bite. I discuss some of the discrepancies in the case.

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DBCooperChannel

  10. Marty Andrade says:

    I promise this is the last time I’ll post this 😉

    I’m the author of “Finding DB Cooper” and I’m doing a DB Cooper AMA at my website:

    https://martinandrade.wordpress.com/2019/06/19/db-cooper-ama/

  11. brucesmith49 says:

    Marty, you are always welcome to post here even if it’s your link, every-other-day!!!

  12. davy says:

    Has anyone else put forth how many drinks DB had on the plane? (Mr. Tosaw says two. I had heard a long time ago, maybe four)
    Plus I read somewhere they were 7 and 7’s…is that right? Or just straight bourbon?

  13. Eric Ulis says:

    Daily DB Cooper Bite. I discuss my 3-point roadmap to identifying DB Cooper.

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DBCooperChannel

  14. FLYJACK says:

    This matches and confirms the FBI flightpath. Norjak veered East (about 8:12, jump estimate) and then turned right, this is incompatible with a western flightpath.

    FBI FILE #10 P419

    __________ WAS INFORMED _________ PORTLAND AIRPORT, THAT TWO CHASE PLANES WHICH WERE FOLLOWING FIVE MILES BEHIND  HIJACKED AIRCRAFT SUDDENLY VEERED TO THE EAST AND THEREAFTER MADE A RIGHT TURN. THE POINT OF THEIR CHANGE OF COURSE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN CLOSE PROXIMITY IN TIME AND LOCATION TO THAT BELIEVED WHERE THE UNSUB DEPARTED THE AIRCRAFT.

    • TED says:

      Eric, make sure Bruce wears his flotation device on the cruise ship. You should really serve bourbon and sodas and hand out $20’s to your guests.

  15. brucesmith49 says:

    Actually, TED, I prefer 7&7s, with Bourbon and 7 over soda. I’m eager to make a lot of money soon so that I can start sampling sippin’ whiskeys.

  16. FLYJACK says:

    We need to put the wind in context.. the FBI ADMITTED that the winds were an ESTIMATE (Sorry Robert and Eric) using data from Salem and Portland and averaged between 8 PM and 9 PM. Salem and Portland are far from the LZ.

    The winds near the LZ and placard were not a fact and if you drill down into the data it appears it was likely off. The winds nearer 8 PM were Southerly. Tom Kaye looking at the data claimed the winds were consistent all the way down and more Southerly than estimate. However, like the FBI data his data set was still far from the LZ.

    “The two closest locations were Salem just south of Portland and Quillayute Bruce said was just west of Seattle. They launch twice a day at 5pm and 5am so that is the data we have. I had him pull a second random day Nov 11 for comparison and you can see that the winds then were actually east near the ground. Nov 24 looks pretty consistent all the way down but seems to be more southerly than we had estimated. Now you can do a proper analysis.”
    Tom Kaye

    If you look at the data in the FBI files, the wind was clearly from the ESE to S.. and if Tom’s assertion that it was consistent all the way down then the FBI wind estimate was off and the wind was actually more in line with the flight path. That would mean Cooper drifted back essentially along the flight path.

    The ESE to S wind around 8 PM is supported by other historical data.

    The assumption made was using data Salem and Portland data and then averaging it over an hour.. The winds were shifting from ESE near 8 PM to SSW nearer 9 PM.

    Anybody claiming the wind at the LZ or placard is a fact is 100% wrong, even the FBI claimed it was an ESTIMATE which they revised.

    The FBI did revise the wind direction estimate to be more southerly spinning the LZ slightly. The search area moved slightly West.

    • FLYJACK says:

      Self proclaimed experts still fail to understand simple concepts…

      The wind data posted above is used for an estimate, a proxy for Woodland based on Salem and Portland data and averaged over an hour…  not very accurate for the LZ.

      I can read the direction..  the issue is Salem and Portland are far from the assumed LZ and averaged over an hour period 8-9PM.

      That is just not precise enough to claim the wind as a FACT as Eric does. The wind is an ESTIMATE just as the FBI stated.

      There is no data available for the exact time and location jumped.

      That is the point. The data shows a ESE, SSE, S to SSW shift from 7 thru 9 PM..  That means the wind at the LZ may have been SSE to S nearer to 8PM. The ground data shows this wind shifting. 

      The proxy wind data from a significant distance and averaged over an hour is just not accurate enough to validate Eric’s and Robert’s claim.

      The F 106 pilots never indicated where Cooper jumped, the person writing the 302 indicated that the veer East is about where they thought Cooper my have jumped based on an 8:10 bump/osc.

      The veer East then turn right indicated by the F 106’s destroy’s the western flight path and corroborates the FBI path. The western flight path is dead.

      The FBI flight path is accurate and Cooper most likely jumped between 8:09 to 8:12 along that path.. 

      The FBI originally used a SW wind then a SSW wind, shifting the search area. But looking at the vague method they used to ESTIMATE the winds, it is clear that it is not at all precise to time and location. 

      The winds at 8:09-13 could have been from SSE to SSW… that spins the potential LZ counterclockwise and Cooper may have drifted along or slightly W of the flight path.

      I don’t know if they searched slightly W of the flight path, I assume they did.

  17. Eric Ulis says:

    Daily DB Cooper Bite. I discuss Sheridan Peterson.

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DBCooperChannel

    • FLYJACK says:

      Ridiculous,,, you trying to gain cred from media which you were the source of.

      You are 98% certain of SP because an FBI agent thought she may have talked to the real DB Cooper.. some are convinced it was McCoy. FBI agent comments/opinions aren’t evidence.

      You have nothing, less than nothing. SP doesn’t match the revised sketch or the descriptions, Cooper was latin in appearance and characteristics. In fact, later on the FBI actually eliminated people because they matched the first sketch which was inaccurate.

      Truth is, the argument for SP is an extremely weak circumstantial one, virtually non-existent.

      Eric has consciously or subconsciously just pursued a grand speculative goal seeking exercise.

  18. RichG says:

    Eric Ulis is posting on the Cooper Forum as Lynn or having a relative post in an attempt to discredit the stewardess who actually saw D.B. Cooper. No one believes Ulis, so he needs someone else to post to make it look like there are more people who believe Cooper is Sheridan Peterson.

  19. shutter45 says:

    Lynn, is not Eric. unless he moved to Ontario where the member is pinging from. no proxy server used either…

    • RichG says:

      You can’t be positive that Ulis is not using tech to hide his location. Lynn sounds way too much like Ulis. Could be a friend or a relative or Ulis is sending him what to say. How do you explain them sounding exactly alike? The Canadian spelling is a nice way to throw people off the trail. Ulis is tied in with Lynn. He’s trying to push his suspect, actually Peterson is someone else’s suspect.

      • Lynn says:

        OMG, this is hilarious. I have no need to prove myself to you. Bruce has spoken to me in person and knows I was looking at SP way before Eric put his (much longer researched) theory up. I was only researching DBC for a fictional story anyway, not interviewing witnesses or tracking down tie clips so all credit to him.Your comment is desperate and silly. I have never met Eric, though once I realized someone was looking hard at the suspect I inclined towards, I did contact him. The paranoia and silly conspiracy theories of some people on this thread is straight out of Dale Gribble land.

        Oh, and “Latin” really tells us nothing except the guy was dark-skinned and only one witness saw his “possibly brown” eyes. There are half a dozen suspects, including some white men who spent MANY years on a continent that turned my Irish skin VERY dark when I was there for just weeks, who could pass. The man had no accent; any guess as to ethnicity was conjecture. George Hamilton looks “Latin”, ffs. Couldn’t be of chalkier DNA.

  20. seiko says:

    You 3 men in that photo have absolutely buried the DB Cooper case. Bruce, you and Mark sit by while Eric Ulis uses a deadman’s suspect and throws him around everywhere like he was Cooper. You 3 are so full of shit. You dog people like Colbert and Blevins out for advertising their suspects, yet Ulis get’s a free pass.

    • brucesmith49 says:

      How does Eric get a free pass from me? He is quite open about his conclusions, and his investigations are transparent. When he suggests a certain conclusion that is a stretch to imagine as true, or is improbable, such as the placard find, I say so. When further analysis reveals that they may be some substance to what Eric is saying, I state that. Therefore, I back off and let the man do his thing.

      Colbert on the other hand was quite dismissive of challenges to his many improbable pieces of “evidence.” Most notable was the how and why of the money find at Tina Bar. When I asked him to explain the secondary money find – the shards by the FBI on Tues-Wed, Feb 12-13, 1980 – Tom just said: “I’ll let you and Georger play in the sand on that one.” That is not a satisfactory answer in my view. More problematic was how Colbert’s people were so tightly buttoned up by TJC. They refused to talk with me. One even threatened me with law suits and possible arrest for asking him questions about Airborne Bob and the CCT.

      As for RMB, he is a dangerous man and an ineffective investigator, in my view, who has also threatened me with law suits (see the many threats on the DZ), bodily harm (Ariel Tavern, 2016), and arrest (Auburn PD). I have written about his many escapades with frequency. Whatever I have said about RMB is well-deserved, and I stand by every single word.

      Your turn Seiko. You’ve made your charges against me. Prove them.

    • TED says:

      The picture of the “ghostly trio” should have included Georger, which would have brightened up everybody’s day.

  21. brucesmith49 says:

    For the record, I do not think Sheridan Peterson is DB Cooper.

    Further, I think he is something else, such as an intelligence operator – an “eyes and ears on the ground” kind-of-guy – traveling through hot spots for decades. Can I prove it? Nope. But I’m thinking it.

    In addition, Eric Ulis has made many important discoveries in the Cooper case, particularly about Sheridan. Pete’s secret bank account in Singapore is the biggie, plus all the falsehoods about his wife in the Philippines. Eric has been able to establish a solid link to Petey’s first wife, Claire, and she has been a gold mine of information on Peterson.

    By contrast, what has Tom Colbert done of substance in the DB Cooper case?

    In response to my own question, I do think that Tom Colbert has made a contribution – first he has gotten a lot of 302s into our hands. Secondly, he wrote a hell of a fine book about Robert Rackstraw. “The Last Maser Outlaw” is superb. It doesn’t prove RWR is DB Cooper by any means, but it does reveal who Airborne Bob truly is – another dangerous man not currently behind bars, imho.

    • FLYJACK says:

      The secret bank account in Singapore was debunked.. Eric admitted it to his credit. But he then claimed it was Swiss account with no evidence.

      It is virtually impossible to prove a negative.

      This case is really a logic puzzle with few pieces and many pieces that don’t even belong. One needs critical thinking to put it together and it does require some quality assumptions and speculation.

      Eric has woven a narrative that contradicts the facts with poor assumptions and wild speculation.

      No, SP was not Cooper. When you strip down Eric’s narrative, there isn’t anything there, nothing at all. The facts virtually eliminate SP.

      Nothing wrong with having a suspect, but in the Cooper Vortex suspect has you.

  22. Eric Ulis says:

    Daily DB Cooper Bite. I visit a place related to DB Cooper history.

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DBCooperChannel

  23. brucesmith49 says:

    Very nice job, Eric. Issaquah, eh? Just down the road from me. Good to see the spot where so much happened.

    Also, glad to hear that boat tours went well.

  24. gypsy23 says:

    Eric, why didn’t you go to the home of Earl Cossy.? It’s in the same general neighborhood. Blevins knows exactly where. He’s been there. of course, Blevins tried to pin sh*t on Bruce Smith. Pure jealousy. That’s Blevins demise…..jealousy of Bruce, Eric, etc.etc..

  25. Daniel meyers says:

    There are things about Peterson that are suspicious. One thing that bugged me he wrote a review on Amazon about Bruce’s book and someone said that he was a suspect and then I said that he had the skills to do what Cooper did, and the next day his review was gone. Form what I have read or seen I don’t believe that he was always forth coming. It’s my opinion.

    • TED says:

      Sluggo once told Robert Blevins to “get his head out of his azz.” Well, it’s been stuck down there for over a decade, yet Blevins is still fighting for air.

  26. Eric says:

    Daily DB Cooper Bite. I discuss my impressions of the Columbia River and the plausibility of the money arriving at Tena Bar via water or dredge.

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DBCooperChannel

    • FLYJACK says:

      I agree about the suction dredge, extremely unlikely for the money to end up as it did going through a suctions dredge.

      There was a massive clamshell dredge/barge operation right across on Sauvie Island in 76/77, that is a possibility.

      I did research on river flow and shape.. TBAR was known as an area for junk to wash up.. The steep drop off close to shore actually creates a higher current and can throw stuff up from the bottom. During a high flow period the location of TBAR relative to the Columbia’s right turn and steep drop would create a condition which would throw debris up from the bottom onto the shore.

      Also, regarding human intervention, if it were why does that mean it was Cooper and he buried it??

      Money buried dry, this isn’t necessarily true.. the money’s edges will fan out when thrown in the water but it will compress and stick together over time when fully saturated. The fanning effect is temporary.

      Water damaged packets of money will eventually stick together in a brick..

      • TED says:

        Has anyone investigating DB Cooper actually seen a dredging operation on the Columbia? The venturi action, and the blades on the intake line PULVERIZES everything.

  27. TED says:

    Has anyone investigating DB Cooper actually seen a dredging operation on the Columbia? The venturi action, and the blades on the intake line PULVERIZES everything.

  28. shutter45 says:

    It’s really hard to say until it’s tested. yes, the bit grinds away at the bottom but it also sucks everything around it up into the pipe. they have “wiper bars” help stop things from entering the pipe but things get through. metal objects can be heard by the operators. cannonballs, plates, chain, even acetylene bottles have gotten through. I have my doubts it would completely destroy the money. some would get through. the pump has a impeller vs a blade. it creates the vacuum. the material coming out is like a slurry. a large percentage of liquid vs solid form. it would take a beating. below is an email from dredge company.

    Dave,
    As a rule of thumb a dredge pump will pass a particle 60% the size of the discharge diameter (24” x 60% = 14” particle). A wiper or any screening device at the cutter can greatly affect the rule of thumb. If the money was bundled very tightly where it wouldn’t just blow apart then there is definitely a chance it made it through the pump. I have heard of acetylene bottles making it through a 30” dredge pump – go figure.

    Bob Wetta
    President / CEO
    DSC Dredge

  29. Eric Ulis says:

    Daily DB Cooper Bite. I discuss DB Cooper’s use of red herrings.

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DBCooperChannel

    • FLYJACK says:

      This is a great example of a lack of critical thinking..

      Cooper demanded to fly “nonstop” aka no stopping in the US, fuel anywhere in Mexico…

      Why would Cooper say “nonstop” if he knew the plane didn’t have the range and the flight would be rejected and renegotiated. Why not just say Mexico? or pick some place far south. Why say no US stops at all if he wanted to jump outside Seattle?

      Simple, he believed it. Cooper wanted to go to Mexico and jump outside the US.

      other factors..

      Cooper wasn’t dressed for a PNW jump..

      Cooper was Latin/Swarthy/Mexican in features and appearance.

      Cooper asked for money using “US” and “American”, that suggests a foreign influence.

      Cooper’s initial demand according to transcripts was rear stairs lowered in flight. Transcripts are far more reliable than 302’s.

      The speculation that Cooper was so clever he made a (nonstop) demand he knew was unachievable, would be rejected and renegotiated as a ruse is utter nonsense.

  30. Eric Ulis says:

    Daily DB Cooper Bite. I discuss conspiracy theories in the DB Cooper case.

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DBCooperChannel

  31. Eric Ulis says:

    Daily DB Cooper Bite. I give an overview of the case as I sign-off for a period of time to work on a major new DB Cooper-related project.

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DBCooperChannel

    • TED says:

      Job well done, Eric. Case solved!

    • FLYJACK says:

      Eric Ulis is the Cooper Con…

      The FBI did not confirm the placard came from Norjak. In fact, they raised doubts.

      Eric claims it as fact, it isn’t.

      Eric also claims the wind direction at the placard location as fact, it isn’t the FBI docs state it is an ESTIMATE based on Portland and Salem data over 50 miles away from the placard location.

      Eric has taken 2 assumptions, intentionally elevated them to fact to contradict real case evidence.

      Now, when Eric is confronted with the F106 FBI docs confirming the FBI flight path he changes his theory.. He now claims the western flightpath maybe had a veer East then a right turn.. this is goal seeking and desperate BS.. Eric’s changes his theory to match his conclusion and agenda.

      Any TV “enterprise” that wants to know the facts should contact real Cooper experts and avoid Eric’s docufantasy which is stolen work of others patched together with weak speculation. He has nothing new. He is the Cooper Con.

      Eric is good example for why I don’t publicly expose most of the suspect info I have. Guys like this will steal your work to try and profit from it. It makes public suspect discussions impossible and undermines case advancement.

  32. shutter45 says:

    He now claims the western flightpath maybe had a veer East then a right turn..

    The same document states a small airfield suitable for parachute jumping and so marked on the sectional map close to where he jumped.

    The only parachute icon found in this area on the sectional map is Scholl’s airfield. it’s located at the 8:15 time frame. it’s hard to change the location to anywhere since a ground position is mentioned.
    This would be the second time the Portland radar operator gives indication of the current flight path being accurate to a certain degree. the operator would have excellent returns coming from 305. it’s very close to Portland.

  33. brucesmith49 says:

    Fly, I think your concern is misplaced that readers of this forum would steal anyone’s hypotheses and run with them. Do you really see any of that happening here or at the DB Cooper Forum?

    Yes, there is plenty of criticism and back-stabbing or even perversions of the original concepts, but hijacking ideas? I don’t see it.

    • FLYJACK says:

      Yes, I have seen it, Eric has done it. He sat in the weeds and patched together pieces from others to present a combined theory glued together with the spittle of speculation and scent of arrogance.. to promote himself. Everybody knows it, few will admit it.

      He has nothing new. His goal is self promotion, not the truth.

      There are always opportunists who will use the work of others to achieve money and fame.

      This is why I always thought there should be a closed trusted confidential network to discuss suspects and evidence and ideas. Once your case knowledge gets to a higher level, public discourse doesn’t work, I found that the amount of information I have is far beyond what can be conveyed and comprehended in any public format. I am starting to forget stuff I already have.

      There is nothing to gain, publicly. I have gained more via private comms.

      Unfortunately, this case isn’t a team sport..

  34. brucesmith49 says:

    To me, there is a difference between sitting in the weeds and patching bits and pieces of information together with spittle versus stealing a hypothesis and claiming it as one’s own.

    • FLYJACK says:

      Difference without distinction..

      Sheridan Peterson “theory”… stolen
      Cooper buried money “theory” on TBAR…. stolen
      Tie dating via patent labels…… stolen
      Western flight path “theory”….. stolen

      What else does he have?? nothing, and he is shopping a docufantasy.. a true Cooper Con.

      I am 99.9% certain that if I posted the docs/info I have it would be stolen by somebody to claim a “theory” for profit. I just don’t need to take that risk, nobody should. There is no upside.

      I see why people write books, to establish a Copyright. I don’t write books.

  35. Dana says:

    At the risk of alienating others, I think I would tend to agree with you Flyjack

  36. Haggarknew says:

    At the risk of alienating others, I would tend to agree Flyjack

  37. brucesmith49 says:

    Ahem, Ladies and Gentlemen: Some people come here just to alienate others, so don’t sweat it. Smile…

    • Rick says:

      I agree with Flyjack and Haggar. The part about Peterson’s DNA being the only one not ruled out yet is conjecture. Did the FBI say they could not rule him out or did they just say nothing?

      Cooper Con. That fits.

      • Marla says:

        I rarely go the Dropzone for any DB news. 85% of the posting is by Robert Blevins complaining about Bruce, Shutter, and now Georger, who Blevins claims calls him at midnight. Can’t quite see why an intellectual like Georger would call Blevins at any time of day for anything, unless Georger was desperate to get his house cleaned up before the misses came back from vacation.

      • TED says:

        Probably learned it from KP duty in the army. If you can peel a potato quickly, you might make corporal. If not, one stays at PFC, or maybe all the way down to yardbird status. To get to R&G business model, I’m thinking PFC grade or less. Kitchen duty is above swamping and mopping.

  38. FLYJACK says:

    Everyone, including myself assumed Cooper wanted to jump ASAP.. this was supported by the idea that Cooper initially demanded rear stairs down on takeoff, makes sense. The transcripts clearly indicate he initially wanted them lowered in flight by the stew then the crew started negotiating with him. The pilots had a plan to escape. Cooper later decided he wanted the rear stairs down on take off, then partial, presumably to allow Tina off the plane. He then decided again to have them lowered in flight. The airstairs down on take-off idea came from the negotiation with the crew, it was not his initial or final demand.

    The point is contradicted in some 302’s, but they are less reliable than transcripts. FBI 302’s are notorious for inaccuracies, by the nature of their production. I found an FBI document that 100% supports the transcript.. which means that Cooper did NOT initially demand rear stairs down on take-off and therefore there is no evidence he wanted to jump ASAP or outside Seattle.

    Note. he also demanded no landing in the US “for fuel or anything”. Why make an unachievable demand that would be rejected?

    Note. the plane was at flaps 30 not 15.

    I think Cooper said flaps down, then when prompted for a number said 15 degrees. (per Tosaw). This communication vagueness may be where the range got messed up for Cooper. He may have intended 15 degrees for his jump, not the entire flight.

    Note. Reno was suggested to him.

  39. Marty Andrade says:

    Fly,

    None of the contradictions, inconsistencies or contraindications you have noted about Cooper wanting the stairs down for takeoff lead any reasonable person to believe Cooper wanted to Jump in Mexico.

    Cooper put the parachute on immediately
    He kept the Door open
    He dismissed Tina right away
    He opened the door minutes after takeoff
    His communications with the cockpit were all about getting the plane to slow down enough to jump
    He jumped about as soon as he could, as far as we know. within minutes of getting the stairs to go down
    He wanted OUT
    Period, end of story.

    All of his actions were consistent from the start of the flight to his exit.

    • FLYJACK says:

      yes it does,

      you’ve make a logical error. timeline

      Those things are TRUE but were done after the negotiation to land in Reno. He changed his plan to not be on the plane when it landed in the US.

      My “theory” is that his initial intention was jump south of the US border but that changed.

      Why demand “nonstop in US for any reason” to anywhere in Mexico if he wanted to jump immediately? it was unachievable and would never be attempted by the pilots… answer he wanted it and believed it.

      other supporting factors..

      He used the qualifier US/American when demanding the money, that indicates an international connection.

      Cooper was described as latin/swarthy/Mexican in features and appearance. Even the FBI docs discuss a possible Mexican connection.

  40. FLYJACK says:

    Geoffrey Gray.. Skyjack

    “Tina will get the parachutes and meals. He also has Benzedrine pills in his pockets. He doesn’t want the crew to get sleepy.”

  41. shutter45 says:

    where is a statement from Cooper in quotations asking for American currency?

    Flo states in her interview Cooper said “take this down”

    ” I want $200,000 in cash by 5 pm. put it in a knapsack. I want two back parachutes and two front parachutes. when we land, I want a fuel truck ready to refuel. no funny stuff or I’ll do the job”

    Flo stopped writing and looked at him and he said “no fuss” after completing the note he said “we’ll take a little trip”
    I see nothing indicating the nationality of the currency.he could also be setting everyone up with a bluff by using Mexico and the term a little trip and jumping much earlier. this is straight from the horses mouth.

    • FLYJACK says:

      Even Kaye acknowledged the “American” currency issue.. he thought maybe Canadian.. but Cooper was latin/swarthy/Mexican..

      302’s aren’t precise facts, they are “summaries” and recall.

      Pilot’s stated he wanted “American” currency and Tina stated “US” currency in the FBI docs..

      It would be extremely odd for somebody without exposure to foreign currencies to qualify the demand as American/US..

      I does suggest Cooper had some international link/exposure…

      • shutter45 says:

        Key word “pilots” that’s not Cooper..

      • FLYJACK says:

        Pilot’s are American, why would they add “American”.. bad logic

        also,

        from FBI file..
        “He later told TINA that he wanted $200,000 in circulated U. S. currency.”

  42. shutter45 says:

    I believe you are over thinking things. I also believe you are trying to link this hijacking to your suspect since you believe he did two hijackings. it’s like a rerun of McCoy. some believe he did two hijackings.

    • FLYJACK says:

      Better than almost 50 years of under thinking…

      If you discount all information that may lead to a suspect then you will never advance or solve the case. Bringing McCoy into it is a false equivalency, a logical fallacy.

      That attitude is a self imposed intellectual prison. Your bias.

      You are really claiming that anything presented that might point to a suspect is invalid because it might point to a suspect.

      Let’s get real, Cooper was widely described as latin/swarthy/Mexican in features and appearance.. even the FBI discussed a possible Mexican connection..

      This is ignored by everyone. Why is that? It seems the bias lies elsewhere.

      • shutter45 says:

        McCoy is very similar as to what you are doing. they linked many things to imply they were one and the same. I believe you are doing the exact samething with your suspect. that’s how I see it. just my opinion.

      • FLYJACK says:

        Do you see not see how irrational that is…

        What you end up doing is discounting anything based on the presenter, not the information itself.

        A suspect lives or dies based on the information, not the presenter.

        You are evaluating case information based on YOUR perception of others motives and bias, the info should be evaluated independently. What you have done is imposed your own bias to discount information.

        Think through the logic,,

        if everyone presenting information who has a suspect is discounted for bias then only those without a suspect are legitimate. Logical extension, only people without a suspect can solve the case. This is crazy, the presenter is irrelevant in the evaluation of the information.

        If you want to disagree with the information based on its merits, that is entirely legitimate, but discounting it based on the presenter is irrational, a logical fallacy. It is a mechanism to end discussion, after almost 50 years on going in circles new ideas are the only way this thing gets solved. IMO

  43. shutter45 says:

    Cooper is quoted “$200,000 in cash”
    Tina states $200,000 in small bills”
    Alice states “he wanted $200,000 and absolutely no trickery or he would explode the bomb”
    Rataczak states describing the note written by Cooper and the notations by Flo containing the figure $200,000.
    These are also statements from actual witnesses. how it changed to American currency it’s not fully understood or explained. dismissing witness statements vs radio transcripts is not logical either.

    • FLYJACK says:

      Argue with Tom Kaye then..

      I am not sure if you’re claiming he didn’t say it or it is unlikely.

      but the pilots said “American” and Tina recalled Cooper telling her “US”

      Why would an American crew add “American”… unlikely.. and Tina backed it up with “US”.

      My conclusion is Cooper “most likely” said it.. your argument doesn’t convince me otherwise.

  44. shutter45 says:

    Tom is not here making these statements. you are? I’m going by your statements and looking at the totality of them…

    • FLYJACK says:

      You are discounting my argument and claiming it is biased because I have a suspect,,

      Tom has the same “American currency” argument (he thinks Canadian) and doesn’t have a suspect..

      This was actually discussed long before Hahneman came into the scene.

  45. shutter45 says:

    Totality of the statements surrounding the money….

  46. shutter45 says:

    Now, I found where he does change the description to “U.S. currency” it wasn’t in his original demand. Flo found out later he had told, possibly Tina the change. I’ll have to read the other documents with no redact.

  47. shutter45 says:

    Tina wrote on the back of a pay sheet demands given to her from Cooper.
    “Going to Mexico city — or anyplace in Mexico — non stop — gear down — flaps down — don’t go over 10,000 feet altitude — all cabin lights out — do not again land in the states for fuel or any other reason — no one behind the first class section ”

    This could be nothing but a bluff. why would he jump so far away as a second choice?

    • FLYJACK says:

      This is my theory,,

      His initial plan was to jump south of the US border, the “no stopping in the US for any reason” suggests this. People often claim, with no evidence, this was a ruse, but that makes no sense. Why make a demand that was impossible and would 100% be rejected. Cooper either miscalculated the range or his intended plane configuration was miscommunicated via Tina.

      Cooper believed his non-stop demand was achievable and he wanted it..

      When they re-negotiated to land in Reno to refuel, Cooper adapted and jumped ASAP as he didn’t want to be on the plane when it landed in the US.

      Prior to the change to land in Reno, there is no evidence that he wanted to jump immediately. If he initially asked for rear stairs down on take off (prior to Reno) that would confirm he wanted to jump ASAP, but he didn’t. It was brought up later. His initial demand was rear stairs lowered inflight.

      Everyone is in the “he (initially) wanted to jump immediately” camp, but if a democracy solved cases this thing would have solved years ago. There is another explanation and it suggests he didn’t jump where he initially planned and that would be significant.

  48. shutter45 says:

    I never claimed that at all. he didn’t jump immediately since he had trouble with the stairs could make that appear to be true but also appears that he jumped immediately after figuring out the stairs? one could believe he was ready once the stair were ready?

    Jumping where they believed he did is a great distance from where you believe he first wanted to jump. stopping in Reno made him jump 2,000 miles short of the original location? isn’t that like wanting to buy a corvette and settling for a VW?

    • FLYJACK says:

      I just don’t see your argument at all. Your vehicle analogy doesn’t work.

      It would more like planning to buy a Corvette but you can only afford a VW.

      Reno changed Cooper’s expected reality.

      The plane was now flying Sea to Reno,, where should he jump?

      It makes perfect sense that he would to jump as far from Reno as possible.

  49. shutter45 says:

    wouldn’t jumping closer to his original location be logical. closer to the border than the other border, Canada? he didn’t want to stop in the US but bails in the US because of Reno?

    • FLYJACK says:

      No, it wouldn’t.

      When landing in Reno was in play he jumped as far from it as possible.

      He then decided to jump ASAP.. should he have jumped outside Reno???

      He has the money, he has a parachute, being on the plane in Reno would be very risky.

      Jumping ASAP considering Reno would give him the best lead time.

      It is very logical.

  50. shutter45 says:

    If it was non stop. where would he jump?

  51. shutter45 says:

    Yes, it shows it makes no difference be it Mexico, Mexico City or Reno. he had no intentions being anywhere in any of those area’s and leads back to only speculation with Cooper’s decision to jump anywhere. it appears that he didn’t plan on a long term stay on 305.

  52. shutter45 says:

    The point is that it makes no difference because he had no intension of jumping anywhere near any given destination. the rest is speculation.

    He put his chute on prior to takeoff. he wanted the stairs down prior to takeoff. he got the money first and had a problem with securing the bag. this backs him up a bit. now needs time to reconfigure. it appears he jumped soon after figuring out the stairs. this could indicate a late jump. speculation again. I doubt we will find out unless Cooper is caught.

    • FLYJACK says:

      Right, speculation is not proof and is all bad,, Got it,, Good luck advancing a 50 year old cold case.

  53. shutter45 says:

    You read into things wrong, constantly. where in the hell did I say speculation was bad?
    Speculation is not proof. it’s a theory without firm evidence. a theory is not proof either. they are possibilities. those can and always will be challenged.

    • FLYJACK says:

      Then what is your argument or challenge? I don’t see it.

      You tried to discredit me, you claim it is only speculation, I said it was a theory..

      This is a waste of time.

      • shutter45 says:

        again, you are wrong Fly. I’m in no way trying to discredit you. I’m challenging what you are posting. huge difference. theory or speculation will get a response to any given subject it surrounds.

      • FLYJACK says:

        Of course you did,, you used the suspect bias fallacy. Everyone has a bias suspect or not.

        but what is your challenge, I don’t see it.

        If I’ve got something wrong or missing or bad logic, I’ll re-evaluate my theory. There is so much case info I am starting to lose track of it all..

        If it is just a difference of opinion or evaluation of information then there is no discussion.

        I think it is solid and supported by other FBI evidence like Cooper’s latin/swarthy/Mexican appearance and features.

  54. shutter45 says:

    You claim he wanted to jump south of the border. reason, mexico. it changes to Reno and now implies to jump 2,000 miles away from said location that he never wanted in the first place and is now deep in US territory where you believe he never wanted. he knew the time frame from takeoff according to your logic. why so early. I’m not implying he wanted to jump anywhere near Reno. how would he know where the border was. he would give the jump location away asking. nothing in his demands suggest a route or any updates with the flight.

    I’m German so would that imply anything while doing a crime? not everyone agreed to that description. others said olive complexion. that’s a wide range of people spanning around the globe. also American Indian, now what? did he live there, if so what’s the grudge against Seattle?

    • FLYJACK says:

      It makes perfect sense.

      Cooper must have had a jump plan.

      He demanded non-stop to land in Mexico, not Germany. Even the FBI considered a Mexican connection. If his initial intended jump was where it was why demand non-stop to Mexico,,

      When the plane had to land in the US, he then had to jump beforehand. He did as soon as he could. He wasn’t dressed for the PNW climate.

      Grudge against Seattle?

      It says “He had a grudge to settle… you reading a bad OCR..

      • TED says:

        R&G cleaning services needs work……desperately. They will offer their sophisticated scrubbing and plunging skills for a place at the Cooper Con this fall. In addition, Bob Blevins will donate all remaining 988 copies of his DB Cooper book (1000 printed) at the Convention for a place at the head table. Eric, are you listening?

      • Marla says:

        I really don’t think anybody wants a free Cooper book written by Blevins. R&G should just haul out with its regular trash run.

  55. FLYJACK says:

    part 18 p 5476

    _______ told me, contrary to our earlier belief, that the crew told him that they could see the lights of Portland and other distinctive lights in that area, so given knowledge of the specific area the hijacker could very easily have made a jump to a specific location.

  56. shutter45 says:

    Rackstraw passes away….

    “I am in touch with Rackstraw family members in six states, and we have learned he died yesterday of natural causes.

    “While my cold case team believed he was Cooper, he was also a husband, father, grandfather and great grandfather. Our condolences to the family.”

    TJC

  57. brucesmith49 says:

    Wow. Big News in Cooper World.

    Synchronistically, I just got an impassioned phone call from Walter Peca, the son of Walter Reca, about his dad. I’ll be talking with him soon, with an update to follow.

  58. FLYJACK says:

    Pills, pills, pills,,,,

    Tosaw claimed Cooper had pills for the crew… but never named them. Tosaw’s claim was dismissed by Ckret as Literary licence…

    However, G Gray named the pills Cooper had as Benzadrine… in Skyjack.

    It seems there is an independent source for the claim… we just don’t know what it is.

    These pills were common for military pilots/crew… back to WW2

  59. FLYJACK says:

    REALLY WANT TO FIND THE DATE FOR THIS 727 INCIDENT…

    A 727 pilot Ziad Afra had an incident taking off in Rome.. The rear airstairs weren’t locked up and there was no light in the cockpit to indicate.. the stairs fell down and dragged on take off. He continued and took off with sparks flying. They pulled the door up and locked in flight and it had melted away half an inch of the airstair.

    This occurred sometime after 1970, but I can’t find the date or any record.

    There is no date or airline mentioned.. trying to determine if it was pre or post Norjak.

    Ziad Afra was a pilot from 1960-1990.

  60. FLYJACK says:

    Lynn posted this…

    “This article has some detail and names several people aboard if anyone is following up on Hahneman. He’d be a better fit for me if he hadn’t used a gun, pulled the drama queen noose stuff, and been such a hothead overall, as well as being too short and having a distinguishing scar in easy view. We have it on record DBC was not a hothead – Tina’s on-camera interview clearly said he was NEVER rude or cruel, including when he was impatient. Hahneman was cruel enough to not tell his blind wife he was out of prison – she had no idea where he was. Also, having been arrested in 1972, wouldn’t the feds have looked HARD at him for Cooper? They wouldn’t have released him and lost track of him. Apparently, they did eventually find his loot, with little comment about it other than it had been found. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login According to this obit, he also had a scar on the back of his hand and was only 5’8″. NEXT! His sons may be alive for interview.”

    This is extremely naive, ignorant and inaccurate.

    This is too common, poor logic, inaccurate facts/evidence and assumptions that have pre-maturely eliminated Hahneman. It is so convoluted, inaccurate and speculative that I don’t care to unravel it.

    • FLYJACK says:

      Lynn also misunderstands the post above…

      “part 18 p 5476

      _______ told me, contrary to our earlier belief, that the crew told him that they could see the lights of Portland and other distinctive lights in that area, so given knowledge of the specific area the hijacker could very easily have made a jump to a specific location.”

      The date was Dec 23/71. Before the simulation.

      It does NOT refer to the jump simulation, IT REFERS TO NORJAK. The context is planning for the UPCOMING simulation.

      This is like herding cats…

      • Nicky says:

        Flyjack unless you can prove your boy was overseeing/managing TIG welding of RMI titanium prior to norjack you can dismiss him as being DBC and that goes for any suspect. So far there is only one known suspect that meets this criteria and that’s James Edward Klansnic and I got the documents to back it up!

      • FLYJACK says:

        Nicky, Nicky,,,,, NICKY!

        The tie particle environment has not been confirmed by you or anyone, those particles match many. TIG welding RMI Ti is a guess. I don’t think people wear ties TIG welding but maybe that is just me… and why would a 727 hydraulics expert need Tina to show him how to pull a simple lever.. Nope, the Klansnic argument is extremely weak.. There is actually very very little there.

        Hahneman was an electrical radio/communications engineer…

        Your statement is hereby rejected… thanks for participating.

  61. Nicky says:

    Oh FLY,FLY,,,,, FLY. I said an overseeing this welding work (manager/engineer) not actual welder thus wearing a clip on tie (clip on for safety) I disagree with you…Tom Kaye did one hell of a on setting the table with his particle analysis at last years coopercon… allowing somebody like me to clean the table afterward to so speak. No guessing here, the tie don’t lie buddy boy. Allow me to enlighten you and if you haven’t watched kayes analysis from the conference it’s up on youtube… be happy to link ya. There was a good amount of irregular salt found on the tie which the only application kaye or myself were able to find for said salt prior to 71 (not your regular table salt) and that’s the hunter process used to produced titanium. There are two processing for producing ti and that’s the kroll process and the hunter process. I believe hunter was the more primitive way and kroll took over. Out of all the ti manufactures in biz during that time the only one in the world still using the hunter process was reactive metals inc (RMI) out of Niles. Ohio and just so happens the only ones in the world welding rmi ti prior to norjack from 68 up until spring of 71 and that was the mechanical system staff of the boeing commercial airplane group for the SST project. They were testing hydraulic tubing for the plane which required the tig welding of the tubes they used 6 different ti tube manufacturers one being RMI. There are 13 metals found in welding fumes manganese (Mn), beryllium (Be), cadmium (Cd), chromium (Cr), cobalt (Co), copper (Cu), iron (Fe), lead (Pb), mercury (Hg), molybdenum (Mo), nickel (Ni), zinc (Zn), antimony (Sb), and vanadium (V) every particle is on the mccrones lab report from 2017 then we have 4 more particles which are found in the filler metal rods used in the TIG welding process (stabilizes/creates the welding arc) which would also end up in the fumes lanthanum, zirconium, cerium, and yttrium which makes a total of 18 particles that match the report from fumes that would produced from TIG welding ti using the hunter process. I am going to have this done and stick a polyster tie in the fumes to prove it. So I got an 18 particle family tree match. How many can you match to electrical/radio engineering??? I’ll be waiting on that and as far as why he needed Tina to help with aft stairs that was a ploy. You really think cooper knew the flight protocols, where the oxygen bottles were located, refueling time, specified how he wanted the fuel tank filled a specific balance of the tanks (certain percentage filled in each one) specifically for flying in that config (low and slow, dirty) knew the plain could take off with stairs down and in flight and he needed help to locate and push a lever that were right on the aft stars come on man use some common sense. He trusted tina and that was coopers shield protection. Pilots could of escaped from the front but they weren’t gonna ditch tina, fbi could of stormed the plane with the pilots up front but not with tina still back there in the line of fire. Therefore I say to you your hondoranian hunk is herb by rejected… thank you for participating!

    • FLYJACK says:

      Meh, not convinced, loose correlation and layers of weak assumptions (made up stuff).

      You actually don’t have anything there.

      Besides lack of any evidence, Klansnic doesn’t fit the Cooper profile at all.

      You can keep digging but IMO you are wasting your time.

      and you know virtually nothing about Hahneman.

      • Nicky says:

        I could care less if your convinced or not. Like I said the tie doesn’t lie. These are the facts, FACT #1 Klansnic was a hydraulic and pneumatic engineer for the mechanical system staff of Boeing Commercials Airplanes (got documental proof) FACT #2 there are 13 metals found in welding fumes which I listed in previous post again I have documental proof from a study to back this up. FACT #3 those 13 particles were found on the tie see the mccrones lab report. FACT #4 There was irregular salt found on the tie which is an exact match to the salt rmi used for its hunter process (Kaye compared them) FACT #5 RMI was the only ti producer in the world using Hunter process which used this type of salt. FACT #6 Boeing commercial airplane groups mechanical system staff was tig welding rmi hydraulic tubing from 68-71 for Boeing sst again I have a document to prove it. FACT #7 tig welding requires filler metal electrodes to be used there are 5 different types used in the industry 4 of which lanthanum, cerium, zirconium, and yttrium these filler metal electrodes end up in the fumes again I have documental proof to back this up. FACT #8 on the same document which states the MST staff of Boeing commercial airplanes group was testing hydraulic tubing for the sst and names Klansnic a member of the MST staff it also credits Klansnic with the welding of the titanium tubing. These are all facts sir, so you can try to poo poo it in another’s way but you can’t say I’m making this up. Good day!

      • FLYJACK says:

        Nicky,

        None of that means anything..

        Your arg is..

        TIG welding has many of the Cooper tie particles. (not all BTW)
        Klansnic supervised the SST tubing project which involved TIG welding.

        Therefore,
        Klansnic was wearing the Cooper clipon tie overseeing TIG welding and he is Cooper.

        WEAK correlation. Nothing there man.

        All you really have is Klansnic MIGHT have been in an environment that MIGHT match the tie particles.. this is worth noting but isn’t evidence of anything. You need much much more than that.

  62. Nicky says:

    IF it was just the TIG welding I would tend to agree fly but here is the clincher which you want to ignore that puts this tie in one group and one group only and that’s the Reactive Metals Inc (RMI) titanium there was no other other group of individuals in the world besides the mechanical systems staff at boeing that were around the welding of specifically RMI titanium that would be wearing clip on ties period. This group was made up of only a handful of engineer…James Edward Klansnic being one! The had to have been worn by one of these staff members, I have now firmly established that. Also when you consider the timeline 68-71 the company boeing which as we well know was the plane cooper skyjacked and demonstrated next level knowledge on the project this work was for and why they had to cease work on said project US Government and the comment cooper made about having a grudge it all TIES in to make one very strong relationship that is too much to be considered a coinkydink!

    • FLYJACK says:

      The CP TI on the tie didn’t match RMI.. the salt was close but that doesn’t indicate it came from RMI. It’s source is unknown.

      The particles had a mechanical smear with SS… the 727 has parts with mechanical joints of CP TI and SS around the lav.. mostly water tubing. It is possible some particles were picked up on the plane or elsewhere but independent of other particles.

      You are making assumptions based on weak correlations.

      Fact is, we don’t where those particles came from or how many different exposed environments over the 6 years since the tie was manufactured.

      We can construct theories aka guesses based on the particles found but those are still guesses.. TIG welding is just a GUESS,,, then you compound your assumptions and GUESS Klansnic was the only one in that TIG environment and GUESS that he was wearing a clipon tie and GUESS it was Cooper’s…

  63. Nicky says:

    The rarity and scarcity/unusualness of that salt there is only 2 ways that salt gets on coopers tie he was working at RMI producing that salt which is fine but then you have to account for the 13 particle family tree for welding fumes I’ve establish and the 4 particles found in electrodes for tig welding to back that and establishes it as TIG welding fumes and how picked that up. RMI was in the biz of producing titanium they did not weld any of it. If it was an employee of rmi that took some home and was welding it himself DIY style for fun he wouldn’t have a clip on tie on while he is doing it. Nobody else in the world was welding RMI titanium with clip on ties present prior to 71 but the MST staff at boeing commercial airplanes group. The only other way to get that salt on your tie and also account for the other family tree of particles is by being exposed to fumes produced by tig welding RMI TI and remember this has to be somebody with a need to be wearing a clip on tie aka manager/engineer (I have a pic of klansnic with one so we know he wore them) around the TIG welding of RMI TI (the salt from the ti would be present in the fumes.) There was a good amount of the salt which suggests frequent exposure not just a one time thing. I have klansnic who we know wore clip on ties to work and is credited for this very work with the only type on titanium that would of produced that rare salt. It doesn’t get any better, I’d like to here other way in. Bruce what do you think of my findings and conclusion? Can you reach out to tom and see if he will look at my posts on this thread and comment. I would love his take as well….

    Thanks,

    Nicky

  64. Daniel meyers says:

    I have a question, has it been suggested that Cooper may have either intentionally or unintentionally dropped a bundle of money and that is what was found at Tina Bar? What I am getting at is did he jump somewhere else, and that may have been to throw off people trying to catch him.

  65. brucesmith49 says:

    That’s a possibility, Daniel. However, it means we have to get inside DB Cooper’s head to decided if that is what he was thinking and did. So far, the evidence does not give us any indication yes or no on this question. Madding? Yup.

  66. Darren says:

    My latest episode is up now. I discuss Ed Edwards with John Cameron. Enjoy!
    https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-was-a-serial-killer-john-cameron/

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