DB Cooper is coming to Graham!
At least a local expert and author, Bruce A. Smith is coming to the Graham Library to present his findings on the famous skyjacker.
DB Cooper is the only sky pirate in the history of the Untied States to get away with his skyjacking. Or did he?
Smith, a former investigative reporter with the Pierce County Dispatch, has been researching the case since 2008 and will provide the details of the case, along with his assessment of the FBI’s investigation. Smith is the author of the DB Cooper and the FBI – A Case Study of America’s Only Unsolved Skyjacking, the most comprehensive and objective examination of this iconic true-crime mystery.
In addition, Smith will explore the FBI’s reasons for closing the case in July 2016, along with evaluating the new suspects brought forward in the History Channel’s epic four-hour documentary, in which Smith participated.
Remember, DB Cooper flew directly over Graham on his getaway flight forty-five years ago this month, so come and celebrate his remarkable escape with good company, fresh apple pie, and coffee. Copies of Smith’s DB Cooper and the FBI – A Case Study of America’ Only Unsolved Skyjacking will be available for sale.
Tuesday – November 8th – 7 pm.
Graham Library, on 224th St in Graham, just west of the Safeway.
See you there!
Might be interesting
Sent from my iPad
So how did it go? I think we should appear at the Graham Library, or the Auburn Public Library, (better venue) TOGETHER sometime after Christmas. You’re allegedly the expert on the FBI’s missteps and possible deceptions to the public regarding the DB Cooper case. Isn’t that right? You’ve said it often enough, and on some points I do agree with you. Here’s two more points of possible deception for you: The Seattle FBI have hid the truth about the Amboy Chute, and the Boys From Brazil at Quantico may have dismissed the case in July 2016…(wait for it now)…because they discovered who the hijacker was, and that he was dead. I would be willing to give away copies of a certain book FREE, not ask for money, if you have guts enough to show with the public and answer those points. Money is crap in the Cooper case. The truth is the only thing that matters, because sometimes it has been lacking. That means truth rises in value when discussing Cooper. My latest post to Facebook is below. Want to find out more? That is up to you.
From Facebook: ‘I’ve gone around and around in my mind on how much I will reveal regarding recent, rather damning evidence against Ken Christiansen and his friend Bernie Geestman in the famous DB Cooper skyjacking case. I’m doing an interview either Nov 18 or 22 (TBA by producers) that will be on satellite radio, YouTube, and by podcast all at the same time. One particular bit of evidence is really scary. A witness came forward in August of this year and claimed he and two friends heard a senior FBI agent, who they named, say that the reason the FBI closed the Cooper case in July 2016 (they did) was that the Bureau knew the hijacker was dead, and that he was none other than OUR suspect Kenneth Peter Christiansen. But here is the problem: All three witnesses work in the DC area as civilian employees of the US government, and all three have security clearances. I verified ALL their information, which checked out completely.
‘Troy,’ the man who came forward, is an engineer who works for a Navy development lab in the DC area. At first, he encouraged me to go to the newspapers with his story. Then, his wife jumped down his throat, calling him a ‘whistleblower,’ and reminding him that THEIR kids, (he has four children) went to swim team meets with not only military families, but some families of FBI agents stationed at Quantico. (Later, I spoke to Troy on the phone extensively and he filled in even more details on the incident)
The question here IS: Should I reveal this information in the interview? I think Troy is being completely honest. He gave me extensive details on the incident, including how it happened, the names and workplaces and phone numbers of the other witnesses, and everything needed to verify his story, which checked out. The agent is a senior FBI agent who works in Behavioral Profiling.
However, since he came forward, Troy has said he would rather I not reveal his name or the name of the agent. He’s worried, because of what his wife said. The question is, what should I do? What would YOU do?’
Just another reminder that Christensen was toooooo short at 5 ft 8 in and you have to get over it
Here’s a reminder for YOU: Gary Ridgway, aka The Green River Killer, was described by different accounts as being anywhere from five nine to six feet one, 175-195 pounds, blond hair or brown, curly or straight hair, blue or brown eyes, outdoors type, or greasy looking with straight hair. Depended on who was giving the description to police, I suppose. The Green River Task Force even interviewed him at their office and sent him away, even though his composite sketch was hanging on the wall right there.
Ridgway was actually five-ten, with brown hair and green eyes, and weighed 155 pounds. The lesson is, witness descriptions are more often unreliable than not. Evidence is MUCH more reliable, when it can be supported.
We (AB staff) now have three solid witnesses who have named a senior FBI agent indicating to them that the DB Cooper case was closed the previous month (July 2016) because the FBI had discovered the identity of the hijacker, and that the hijacker was dead. When asked not just once, but TWICE…the agent indicated in the affirmative that the hijacker was Kenny Christiansen.
Don’t miss the upcoming radio show where I reveal all the evidence once and for all. And yes…I will name all names involved, and the circumstances of all the evidence that will be presented in about a week.
and this is similar to the Cooper case because? the victims spent 5 hours with him, and couldn’t ID him correctly, or that they didn’t always have a good look at him? he couldn’t be 20 years off on age either though, right?
The Cooper case is different from the average crime, or murder suspect. they usually only had a glance, or a moment to get a description, so using this as an example doesn’t compare. bank robbers are in and out, the descriptions are wrong due to time frames of seeing the suspect. we see this proven with the passengers…
you claim the height can be wrong, even though Tina stood next to him and said she had to look up at Cooper, then you use a tan vs olive skin tone, but can’t believe he could be 20 years younger than described, really? you believe a toupee was worn when they were extremely noticeable in 1971, and even today? none of the pictures of Kenny show him “tanned”, or with a toupee. I don’t believe the age thingy, but people sometimes can fool you on age. why is it okay to blast the age thingy, but not anything else description wise? don’t you think Tina would of said he was my height? Kenny and Tina were the same height? why do you blast Rackstraw so much? the attention it got? Kenny only got a cursory notice lol. I don’t believe Rackstraw was Cooper either but I don’t go full blown trying to discredit him? too much spotlight for ya? thunder taker? descriptions also states American indian, and Latin decent. Kenny match those, or those are wrong too? what is right? 5′ 8″ tanned, had a toupee, and hazel eye’s? feel better now? word also has it that Tina flew with Kenny?
You state this “When asked not just once, but TWICE…the agent indicated in the affirmative that the hijacker was Kenny Christiansen.” but then say it could be an opinion? fact vs opinion? you have both?
did you read the response from the FBI? yes you did, that’s when the “personal opinion” popped up lol
I’m challenging Bruce Smith not only to appear on the Global Star network radio show/podcast, but to do a joint presentation afterward at a larger venue in the Puget Sound area. Time to go public perhaps. You know how to find me. 🙂
Of course – a Cooper SLAM! Gotta love it. Okay RMB, you’re on. Just tell me where and when to show up.
You’ll have to contact me privately about this…be REAL about it…before I even consider trusting you regarding the upcoming radio show. As far as a joint appearance in the Puget Sound area, that is no problem. I think the Auburn Public Library might be a good venue for that. They get pretty good attendance to those events. I would have to set that up in person because they won’t schedule you without meeting you first. (Not YOU in particular, I mean they won’t schedule a space, the time, or advertise a library event without a face-to-face at the library in advance.) This would have to be scheduled after Christmas sometime.
As far as the radio interview, you know the problem. If I make the identity of the show public, certain people at an unnamed website would cause problems. The show knows this, the people involved at that unnamed website know they would attempt this, and both you and I know this. Trust is real problem sometimes in Cooperland. It’s a seriously lacking commodity. 🙂
Hunh? I thought you wanted to get together and do a joint DB Cooper thingy. Now you don’t? Something about trust? Something about other people causing some kind of problem? What problems?
RMB, please know that I am ALWAYS happy to talk DB Cooper. I await your confirmation of when and where.
Come on, Bruce. Don’t play games with me here. You know perfectly well what I’m talking about when I mention ‘a website,’ ‘trust issues,’ and ‘certain people’ in the same sentence. I don’t mean here at Mountain News, either. I’m just trying to avoid mentioning that group publicly. I’m not here to knock on them on your own news site page. Besides, I have a sort of truce going with the Head Honcho there and I made promises to him. You have my email address if you want to know more. The best place for any PUBLIC updates on all this is at another site. The one nobody posts to much, but has many visitors. I would check ‘Updates If You’re In A Hurry’ thread there for all details.
You mean Shutter 45 and the DB Cooper Forum? Okay – you say you have a truce going on with him and that site. Good for you!
What does that have to do with me, and speaking collaboratively on DB Cooper?
what truce? never heard this before. the trust issue surrounds one Robert Blevins who spewed all sorts of lies about you Bruce. kind of like being “snarky” eh?
you want to ban up with a known liar that’s your choice. the same guy who constantly spoke online about trying to get you into Ariel when he was really doing the opposite.
perhaps you should stay on that avenue with Mr. Blevins?
Okay. I will try to set up something to be scheduled at the library after Christmas. Graham or Auburn or both or somewhere else. Whatever you think is best. I think the venue where attendance is most likely to be greatest is the best option. Auburn does pretty well on their events. But it doesn’t have to be there. You know how to contact me to work out the details.
Plenty of time to work on this idea. Christmas isn’t for a month yet, and I was thinking about some get-together in January perhaps. As long as I’m still on the street, that is. You never know. The FBI might get pissed off at me after I do that interview on December 23rd. I had visions of doing the interview on that Friday, and then come Saturday morning, (Christmas Eve) I hear this BAM BAM BAM on my frickin’ door. Just like anyone else who has checked out DB Cooper, I have questioned some stuff regarding the FBI’s investigation. But I never went so far as to say they were less than honest on the reasons they ‘closed’ the case. I plan to do that, and frankly, it’s a little scary, even for Mr-Tough-Guy-Who-Has-Survived-Stuff-Galore. I consulted with an attorney who advises the Wall Street Journal on all of this, and he told me I was in the clear as long as whatever I said was the truth. Well, okay. Hope he’s right, otherwise it’s going to be a real crappy Christmas. 🙂
why would the FBI be pissed off at you? you read an email that was directed at your allegations? you even admitted it might be a personal opinion. you are making it appear larger than it really is, plus once again you claimed you were done with all of this? you even said you emailed them, where is the results? Bruce got one rather quickly?
This guy runs a “public” forum in which he constantly shuts out the public for any given reason causing a stir with the small amount of followers he has. he will blast me about not allowing guests to see links, but shuts his whole site down to non members, then wants to play the trust game?
he was kicked out of Ariel due to his online behavior of targeting me, and my forum rather than promote a good cause of helping Ariel rebuild. basically running a hate monger site, he even has dedicated threads revolving around me and my forum?
trust issue, damn straight!
way to go Bruce…
Well, I contacted you by email three times this week about your interest in going global and participating in the two-hour interview regarding the Cooper case, as well as hosting something for the NW locals in January. No answer. I would say this proves you are mostly full of hot air and promises, and as the man said ‘without substance’. You might be popular with the guys at the DB Cooper Forum, but you are a bit lacking in communicating with the public. It’s either that, or you’re worried that Head Honcho ‘Shutter 45’ at the Cooper Forum would ban you from participating in these things. LOL he’s already done that to me, but all that did was drive the public and the media in my direction. You should see my inbox at Gmail. My advice is you be your own man, and stop worrying about what is popular with a reletively small group of people who have been proven on different occasions to play dirty tricks when they get a chance. 🙂
My offer still stands. I am happy to talk about Cooper where ever and whenever. Just let me know.
you were banned for a reason. stop lying. you joined under a false name specifically to cause trouble. trouble found you with a permanent ban. you did this to yourself, not me. you even lied about the reason you joined. nothing was said about you until you joined.
It’s the failure to present thing honestly that get you in trouble, just as you said about being banned. you make it appear it was for no reason when the reason was clear, but not until I tell it though. you leave these critical points out.
you disrupted Dropzone, so I told people you would not be welcome. that was the first reason for the permanent ban, then you pulled your little stunt that sealed the deal. you also cause things to stall with constant bickering, and making fun of others with theories you don’t like.
I don’t ban people because I want to, it will have a reason. I don’t turn things on and off as you do. I said you were banned permanently, and that stands. you will read signs in the real world “we have the right to refuse service to anyone” I have that right as well, but don’t use it. I have reasoning behind removing someone. yours was obvious. stop acting like you are the victim..,
Not a chance in Hades. You have to prove you can be trusted first. You don’t even answer your emails LOL.
And it wasn’t your offer. It was mine.
Didn’t mean to sound like my offer(s) were withdrawn. That’s not what I meant. It’s just not kosher to discuss all this publicly. I sent you three emails. You never responded. It seems like that situation from ‘Star Trek – The Wrath of Khan,’ where Spock says: “There are only two possibilities. They are unable to respond. Or they are unwilling to respond…”
These things are not something I can just toss together and then email you concerning the details, and expect you to show up, or to participate. That’s not how it works.
his response will be he drove many times (130 miles one way) whining about what he did. he did do some things, but it doesn’t overpower the hatred he spewed while he was involved with Ariel. he kept telling Bruce he was trying to convince Bryan to allow him to show up at the party, but Bryan stated a different story of Roberts pleads to not allow him.
He will now attempt to discredit me by saying I’m not helping Bryan when he has no idea what is really going on behind the scenes. I’ve made a website, and a You Tube channel full of video’s ready to be launched. then he will tell you about the Learning channel that contacted Bryan, and not Robert. he even stated he didn’t get involved with the crew while they were there, but tells a different story now. he also claimed a goal was reached with the funds? $85 with gofundme, and around $1,500 with the party? what goal was reached?
because of Mr. Blevins’ actions, Bruce had to drive by the event due to Robert pushing for his removal. it turns out that Bryan did this to keep the two apart. something entirely different as to what Mr. Blevins had claimed. Ariel was known for welcoming everyone who stopped by until Mr. Blevins got into the picture. he didn’t just upset Bryan, he upset a whole bunch of people in Ariel with his online behavior. now, he tries yet again to blame me for his actions.
Mr. Blevins made a Facebook page for the Ariel store, but most of the comments were rants about me turning people off from the real cause of helping Ariel. then hit Bryan with copyright infringement with photo’s due to his spite for being removed. Bryan had to make his own page to get away from Mr. Blevins. trust? Robert has zero.
I really won’t grace your comment with a comprehensive response. You (Shutter45) are the same guy who sends me nasty emails and brags that I can’t respond because you blocked my address.
Your post is so full of mistatements and inaccuracies that I hardly know where to begin. The truth is that Adventure Books of Seattle donated hundreds of dollars in food, bottled water, solid advice on restoring the Ariel Store, referred the most prestigious engineering group in Washington state to assist Bryan, did a lot of hard physical work to make the last Ariel Party happen, got the store on Travel Channel on the day of the party instead of Sunday, cooked most of the food, got him in two news articles, and he raised quite a bit at the auction as far as I know. You and yours did exactly nothing, and talked badly about the event right up to the day before it happened. No use trying to fudge on that, I have your posts at your own website about it.
In exchange, Bryan turned his back on us for no good reason, kept an expensive painting and a custom-made stainless steel mirror we donated to the auction (which never came up for sale). They were gifts to the AB staff from the former owners of this home at 16 Columbia Key in Bellevue: https://www.redfin.com/WA/Bellevue/16-Columbia-Ky-98006/home/409113
We still support the reopening of the store in any format Bryan chooses, but we no longer want to be involved financially with him or the store in any way. And frankly, we could do without your ‘ha, ha, you can’t answer’ emails as well. Have a great day. 🙂
Robert, you fail (once again) to understand the things you did. you don’t try to help someone and in return broadcast drama articles all over a site that was designed for a cause. the cause what not “The DB Cooper Forum” and it’s members. you made the page with that direction. post after post, Shutter this, and Shutter that. the cause is to help Bryan raise money. you raised $85? TLC helped Bryan, and contacted him about doing an event outside of the normal November slot. so don’t try and take credit there either. plus, we all know the locals would show anyway, so none of your promotions worked.
It wasn’t just the Ariel page you posted the drama, it was on your forum (still whining now) and other outlets. I sent a total of two emails to Bryan while you were involved. the second one was a nasty reply to his email. Bryan made a choice to REMOVE you due to conflicts with his family that YOU caused with all the drama. people did read all the hateful comments you posted. I was surprised Bryan went as long as he did, so in return you allowed him to post on a page you made, and then screamed infringement? Bryan had to close that page and start his own. my fault too, right? can’t we just blame Bush?
Then if that isn’t enough, you make fun of video’s made in Dona’s honor, calling them “cheesy computer Generated video’s” and you continue to harass Bryan, similar to what have have done to me over the years by sending hate mail months after your removal. you can never let things go, especially, when you are wrong. I made fun of you…big difference. you have called Bryan names, you hope he fails, even stating that in the hate mail.
Everything you tried to promote Ariel with was in the backseat, Adventure books, and Robert Blevins came first, then blast me, and members of my forum, then you would say something about the actual cause?
Bryan, and the people of Ariel had enough of your drama. I had nothing to do with it, get that through that thick skull of yours. you would have been fine if you kept your drama pushing mouth shut, and helped the cause vs damaging it. instead you lied about helping Bruce while stabbing him in the back offline. showing people how you get around the ban on my site. you must be one proud fella, sound familiar?
Once again, you stated (for about the 200th time) that you were done with all of this, and had other things to do? and yet, here you are? still up till the sun comes up spewing hatred on your “spite site” you don’t own anything other than an old truck. Gayla owns Adventure books, and probably has her name on the lease, and yet you are the key to financial success? both “businesses” fail to have any licence, no corporations…
are you still closing the public out in January? my guess is you flip flop off that as well, but continue to shut the public out often on your forum? you claim the producers knew all about us, and yet you hid everything? scared of the truth you scream all the time. it’s really funny how hypocritical you are without even knowing it….stop trying to blame others for your own actions.
You’re repeating yourself. And why would you even care about whether the Adventure Books forum is open or closed to the public? Why would you even care about that since you don’t support anything we do? It would seem obvious to me that you would WANT us to keep the site closed to members only. And on a matter of point, simply requiring registration to post or view is not ‘closing a site to the public’. Most forum sites, including yours, require registration to post anything. This is the most hypocritcal thing I’ve heard you mention so far, along with your weak denials about comments made by both you and your most prolific members for MONTHS prior to the actual Ariel event.
I already made a comprehensive list of what we we did for the store, and no matter which way you slice the bread, it’s a hell of a lot more than anything positive you have done for them. (A couple of cheesy videos don’t count)
As it is, your actions have done nothing but hurt the store’s chances of ever reopening. That is YOUR fault. Or maybe Bryan’s. I’d like to know what he did with the items we donated that came out of a 3.5 million dollar home up in Bellevue. They sure didn’t get sold at the auction. I think its very convenient, and a dirty trick indeed, for Bryan to accept all the help we provided, all the money, all the publicity, and ALL THE THINGS…and then flippantly turn his back on us over a few internet postings at Facebook. No one is buying it, which is some of the reason no one wants to help him now. And you can try to say you and your members didn’t bad-mouth our efforts between April and August of this year, and I can show you posts from your website and some of your members that put the lie to that claim. Your hatred for us makes you forget, I guess. From the moment we started the effort to help Bryan back in April of this year, you and yours were saying things like, “We would support it, but not if Blevins is involved…” Thanks a lot for giving us the chance. Even some of the locals we worked with on the Ariel event wondered why you did that, and why Bryan did what he did. Personally, I think he did it because he’s selfish, ungrateful, and didn’t want to feel obligated. So now he’s got you, and whatever help both he and your group can recruit for him.
But that hasn’t been going so well, has it? You recently admitted on your own website that nobody around there was much help, or just wasn’t interested enough to put their effort or their money where their mouths were. What’s the problem? Found out it’s easier to talk a good game than to actually DO something? Did you find out that it takes the cooperation of a lot of people and many organizations to actually pull off something as big as repairs and reopening of a 90-year-old building that needs a complete makeover? Those things the state and county have demanded Bryan do to reopen for business will cost a minimum of $70,000 and he doesn’t even have a job. Adventure Books was his best chance and out of spite, you made sure he didn’t get that chance. Now to be fair, I will say that even if The DB Cooper Forum’s members had been completely supportive of our efforts…and Bryan had done what he did the week after the event…we would have written him off anyway. So no one around AB blames you for everything. We do think you had a hand in it though. If you were smart, you would have told Bryan NOT to turn his back on us quite yet because it might look very bad, considering what we spent the entire summer doing for him, how much help he got, all the support he received, moral, monetary, and physically. You did ZIP except complain that AB was involved. I have your posts on this, as I said.
However…since you were determined to make a point and set yourself up as a better means of public support…you didn’t have the sense to talk him out of that decision. No one here, and no one publicly, is going to support someone who accepts SO much help and then dismisses the source for petty reasons, as soon as he gets his hot little hands on everything he could wangle from us, what we were foolish enough to give him on our own. Triple stainless sink, food, water, massive labor, scrubbing of bathrooms, moving of furniture, moving cords of wood to open the stage, the news articles, convincing Travel Channel to film when there’s actually someone there besides Bryan, whatever. It’s an almost endless list. Gayla Prociv was furious at not you, but Bryan, and will never hand over the AB debit card for anything Bryan-related again. I told you in an email that directly after the last party at Ariel, when I returned home and discussed Bryan’s situation with Gayla, she said I should talk to my mother and see about a loan from the trust fund currently in my name with her. I called my mother about this, and she is 100% for anything AB of Seattle. Has all the books right back to our Lulu dot com days. She told me no problem, just figure out what you need, she said. Two days later, Bryan goes public on Facebook without even the courtesy of informing me first he had a problem. He did this less than a week after the party. Gayla and I decided right then that Bryan could yes…just go to hell as far as we were concerned. It was the most dirty trick I had seen in a long time. I was preparing to set up another meeting with Bryan to work out a budget for him, and then he comes at us with this garbage right out of left field. I liked his mother a lot, but Bryan? No. Not any more.
Of course, Bryan now has you and the Cooper Forum. Like I said to you before, maybe instead of whining about me…you should get to work and help him. We did our part. Stop crying about me and do YOUR part. You talk a big game. Haven’t seen any action yet. If the store never reopens and Bryan is eventually forced to sell the place, I personally blame you and some of the members of your forum for a portion of that. Not all, but a portion.
I don’t care about your forum, but you prove yourself rather hypocritical with constant rants about “censorship” and the public’s view? did Dropzone shut down there site often? you like to use them as a guideline? “you can’t even view shutters site from a library, who needs censorship like that” over and over, but you shut your whole site down constantly? what kind of “public” forum does that? why did that happen with me? you were using a proxy, so my proxy blocker hit schools, and libraries. my fault, right? don’t get me started on how bad it was having a free forum. those are really bad, only when I was on one? “hypocrite”
Robert, your not a business man by any means. it’s not my job to talk Bryan into anything Robert. when will you understand it was you who caused the problem? it’s not a contest, it’s someone who needs help, and someone who doesn’t want his cause used as a plot to even a score.
what truce are you talking about? never heard of any such thing.
Gayla isn’t much of a business women either by not stepping up and handling her own matters when things get out of hand. if she is so involved in everything, you have her contact me? I won’t hold my breath on that one. she read all the crap you posted, and approved it, really?
They were not “petty reasons” you were out of control with the rants. It’s amazing how you try and twist out of things. what do you know about what is going on with Ariel? nothing, more speculation. should I shut my site down when I discuss Ariel, is that how it works? that’s what you do? members from your forum told you a year ago that you constantly do things you preach against, and yet you never learn. we have a project starting soon, I guess I should close my forum,you know, to keep the detractors away. childish tactics Robert. I guess Jerry Lewis should spend 23 hours blasting someone he doesn’t like on the telethon, no? you giving someone a loan? get real, you would try and take the business over Robert. he would be a fool to fall for that one.
I work everyday, I can’t stay up and argue with you over things that were caused by you. I’m sure you will be typing away till the morning light, perhaps a new thread on the spite site? did the FBI burst in on ya yet, lmao…especially since they answered your question months ago…
I think I addressed the Bryan-and-the-Ariel Store situation pretty well in my last two posts here, and frankly I don’t think it’s fair to Bruce Smith for us to be arguing about it here. It’s obvious we are at different ends of the spectrum regarding this situation, and will never agree. You keep trying sidetrack readers from the real story by making snide comments about Gayla Prociv, (a very generous and nice person whom you have not met) and trying to deny that you and some of your forum members spent a lot of time and posts picking on our efforts to help Bryan and the Ariel Store the whole time we were doing it.
From time to time I will shut the site down to change the theme, for cleaning up unneccessary images no longer needed, (limited bandwidth) and other harmless things. You must hang out there a lot, since you keep bringing that up.
Gayla is not DB Cooper-oriented. She’s originally from Vista, CA and couldn’t care less about the case. However, she did like Bryan and she thought what Dona Eliott did for all those years was a good cause. That’s why she did what she did for the store, without asking for anything in return. In reality, it was YOU who picked on the whole idea of AB of Seattle trying to come up with ideas to help Bryan and the store reopen…and you did it solely because you had personal issues with me. That is a fact. Really, Dave…what do YOU know or understand about Bryan’s problems down there except for what others have told you? You’re not from the Northwest, you’re from Florida for God’s sake, and you’ve never even attended an Ariel Party event. Yet you took it upon yourself to bad-mouth and go non-supportive on our effort that went six full months, was work aplenty I assure you, simply because you let your feelings for me get in the way of what was best for Bryan and the store.
Yes, I quoted some of your comments at Facebook on the Ariel page there. You bet I did, and I would do it again. If you had the sense to support the effort, despite the fact that we were involved, none of this would have happened. Look at the result. Now you send me emails calling me a liar, and then brag I can’t answer them. It’s really childish, you know. Even some of your forum members have told me this.
This isn’t the only place you’ve gone wrong, based on your personal issues with me. For example, I tried to convince you to tell your members (especially VickiW, who seeks her missing father) to come on board for the recent interview with the Hagmanns. But no…you couldn’t do that because you are just immersed in the Hate Locker like big-time. So, I went it alone and spoke for the Cooper case when it would have been better if SEVERAL people, like Bruce Smith, or Vicki, or whomever, had joined along. In a single day, the interview got over 7,000 hits at YouTube and continues to go up. We reached at least 150,000 listeners on the live version, and the archived version at their main site? Who knows. They told me a half-million or more in a reasonably short time could be expected. You cut all our members out of that opportunity just out of spite. You’re not ‘The Biggest Website on DB Cooper’. Neither is ours. You’re just another one.
I never proposed ‘loaning’ any money to Bryan Woodruff to reopen the store. You’re wrong about that. I’m moving to Arizona in about two years, and I certainly don’t want to ‘own’ the Ariel Store. It was going to be a GIFT, because after all the work the AB staff did for Bryan and the store, we decided it was just a worthy cause to keep a NW tradition from going by the wayside. You always seem to think I have the basest motives in mind, when in reality I think of others much more than myself.
It is YOU who have the problem, sir. 1,500 mentions of my name at your website, posts I cannot respond to…and mostly negative. Lately, you seem to have ‘laid off’ on that stuff. Or maybe you just ran out of bad things to say about me. I remember when you posted up there that you were going to move all those RB posts elsewhere. Damn…they must have really been stacking up on you. 🙂 I’ve already presented my case thoroughly. If anyone has any questions about it, they know where I can be reached.
“… never proposed ‘loaning’ any money to Bryan Woodruff to reopen the store. You’re wrong about that. I’m moving to Arizona in about two years, and I certainly don’t want to ‘own’ the Ariel Store. It was going to be a GIFT, because after all the work the AB staff did for Bryan and the store, we decided it was just a worthy cause to keep a NW tradition from going by the wayside…”
*I would have asked for one caveat. I wasn’t planning on handing a blank check to Bryan.* I would have wanted to see a full budget and a solid plan, with contractors’ bids first. Gayla and I were SO excited when I came back from the Ariel Party. Travel Channel there, Bryan got fairly good money, some things hadn’t worked up to that point, but the party went well. Bryan had done a TON of work on his own clearing out the trash and junk from the property and creating that really cool stage area to the south of the store. He’d done his part, we were going to spring our idea on him in the next week or two after I spoke to my mother.
Then…he trashes me at Facebook for reasons I considered fairly petty. And that was the end of that.
If you don’t like or support or believe it what we tried to do for Bryan and the store, fine. Okay, I will accept that. But stop picking on us about it. If you think you can do as good or better than we did…then damnit…get your behind to work and stop whining abuot us.
Robert, you have spent the last 4 years whining about me. the same rants over and over. then then when someone does it too you, you scream not fair? Now, you wish to put Bryan in that category as well, really? this again is where you don’t realize the things you do…you have dedicated threads about me, and you wish for people to stop saying things about YOU. are you kidding me? do I blast you on my forum, Facebook, WordPress etc.? have I ever made threads specifically about you? hypocrite, and double standard are two words you live by.
Again, there would have been no problem with you if you had done the right thing and stuck with helping Bryan without trying to trash someone constantly, you couldn’t resist the offer. with the exception of your last email to Bryan several days ago I haven’t said a word about you surrounding Ariel. why? because the right thing to do is try and help him vs trashing someone. this is a real life problem, not some personal internet dual. I’m trying to help someone in need the best I can. things are going on in the background. I don’t feel the need to post every single move. it’s not a contest. you really have no grounds for disliking Bryan. he was caught in the middle of all of this.
I have plenty of real life matters that over ride all of this. I had to use physical force to get one of my trucks back up and running after 4 months of bullshit lies. I’m working on getting certified for my drone business. the FAA has been a thorn in this from day one. contractors screaming for completion before the holidays. I had to update my OSHA certification (30 hr class) as well as aerial lifts just to mention a few. what I don’t need is someone telling me what I should do….I don’t have the luxury to stay up all night arguing with you.
with all of that said, I’m organizing a project of putting money on the banks of the Columbia to resolve issues surrounding the money found in 1980. we even have Tom Kaye on board. the location (obviously) will remain classified, but will be close enough to get the same results. so, my plate is rather full, and I’m concluding our discussion here. it’s pointless trying to get you to understand things.
Later dude…. 🙂
I’m sorry about your personal issues, but believe it or not, I gave you the situation straight up for exactly what it was regarding Bryan, the store, and your website’s comments and lack of support about the whole effort. And what happened as a result of all that, including Bryan’s rather strange and selfish actions.
Burying some money along the banks of the Columbia is very doubtful to prove anything regarding the delivery method of the original money that was found there in 1980. I can make it much simpler for you. Even Tom Kaye believes human hands were somehow involved, and so do I. My personal belief is that SOME of the ransom money was placed into a container, (perhaps a paper bag) and tossed into the Columbia sometime after November 24, 1976 (day the Statute of Limitations should have expired, but didn’t) in an effort to make law enforcement believe Cooper was dead. Unfortunately, the money was not found for a few years because it made it as far as Tina Bar, and then was dredged onto the riverbank with the dredge spoils.
This would explain easily how some ‘shards’ were found at depth, while three bundles managed to stick together and make it through the dredge pipe and were deposited at a shallower depth. There is also the possibility of everything being moved around a little bit by the Fazios’ and their bulldozers.
That’s a theory, but I think it works. Unless you believe SAGE radar and the other means used to track the plane was off by more than six miles, and that is unlikely. If radar were really that inaccurrate, commercial aircraft would be doing headers into each other all the time. 🙂
Just an update: For you Cooper fans who haven’t yet heard, the Travel Channel Show on Cooper airs on Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 9PM/8 Central. I received a nice thank-you message from the producers, who said my idea to come to the Ariel Store and shoot on a Saturday made it the best part of the show. AB of Seattle may get a mention in the credits, they said. That is up to the post-production people, I was told.
don’t forget “folks” the show surrounds member from my forum! three of them, I believe. the purpose of the show surrounds the money found on Tena Bar….
Is this how arrogance works? thanks…most of us received an email without sending for an update 🙂
as usual, you read things wrong. Tom does not imply human intervention as the final reason. Tom has jumped aboard, why is that? because it arrived in a paper bag lmao…stay out of the way, and let the big boys handle this. we don’t need your opinion.
I’m just worried the FBI will confiscate our findings lmao…. I heard from an agent (high security) that the test has been the talk of the department. “our staff” lol, is taking precautions and preparing for the worst..
wow, this bullshit story is easy, no wonder you get away with it
Here is what Tom Kaye (member of our forum) had to say about the test. this is a small portion of what was written last week…yep, Bobby, non need to test this,right?
” 3. No matter who’s theory you believe (unless you think the Ingram’s buried the money) the bills were out in nature and under the sand for at least a couple years. The holes in the bills proceeded very slowly otherwise there would have been nothing left. We saw holes in all stages of formation. If the experiment shows holes or ones starting to form, the info should allow us to extrapolate how long the original bills were buried. Lets say after a year we JUST start to see holes forming, then you can confirm that holes all the way through would take multiple years etc.
7. If our theories are right, and the dredging replenished the sand on the beach, it might be hard to keep them buried just a few inches below the sand today. I would bury aluminum tin foil balls near the money so you can find them again with a metal locator. If the money goes downstream so will the balls and you will know what happened.
8. I would also cut the bills in half so outsiders reading this forum will not go looking for “cash” buried on TB. ”
Sure, we should just argue about theories, right? you think they arrived in a paper bag, nice sound theory? how did it get off the bottom of the river?
we will take it from here, ok 🙂
I’m not really sure where you were going with all of that. Yes, I know about the segment filmed near Tina Bar with three of your forum members. And yes, Tom Kaye and I also communicate on a regular basis. He’s a real nice guy. He has told me that he believes human intervention was probably involved, and for two reasons. One, he believes the flight path is accurate. Two, the evidence gathered by his own money tests indicates the money most likely was not exposed to the elements for nine years. If you believe the flight path is accurate, and the jump point for Cooper was correct to within a maximum of three miles north or south, then Cooper didn’t jump into the Columbia River.
That said, there is no other practical water delivery method between a Cooper jump and where the money was found. This is not supposition, or believing that Paul Soderlind and his team were off by six miles or more on the flight path. It’s the known, available evidence ABOUT the flight path. I consider it a baseline because so many other things support it. Radar, the search on the ground, the finding of the placard, and possibly even the discovery of the Amboy chute in 2008. And Paul Soderlind, the director of Flight Ops at NWA at the time, is no slouch and certainly nobody’s fool. That’s how he got into the Minnesota Aviation Hall of Fame. Remember a small, but important fact…from the time that the crew radioed they were being hijacked, people on the ground had time to start preparing to either catch Cooper on the ground, or follow him in the air. And they had hours to get ready.
So how did the money get to the Columbia River? And if you believe Tom Kaye’s team, then where was this money for the years prior to its discovery, if, as Kaye says, it wasn’t hanging in the river or the weeds for nine years? His rubber band degradation tests and the money tests are pretty convincing. He said (I believe) they thought the money couldn’t have been in the elements more than 18 months, although I would have to double-check his website. In any event, it certainly wasn’t nine years. So how do you explain it? Did the money check into a long-term storage locker for the first few years and then take a cab to the Columbia? I’m not trying to be a smart-ass here, but I trust Kaye’s results, and he is quoted in Skyjack and in an email to me that he does believe human hands had something to do with the whole thing. His ideas make sense if you think the hijacker had a hand in the whole thing, which he certainly may have.
My idea is just a theory. It came to me one day that maybe there wasn’t just ONE answer to the money, but a number of different factors. The Statute of Limitations was one. It was all over the Northwest news when the FBI went around the statute in November 1976. I saw the reports on TV and in the Seattle Times. You have to believe the hijacker sucked up every single bit of news he could find on Cooper. Of course he would. The condition of the money is another factor, i.e. not out in the weather for nine years. Money coincidentally being found in the same place they dumped dredge spoils, with some money in tiny bits, and some still reasonably intact. (Like it went through a dredge pipe and some was chopped, and some escaped.) Who knows?
After I thought about your test, I decided it wasn’t a bad idea. I did wonder how you would react if after two years the money was pretty much wet mush. This would prove to you that the ransom money was not left outside for nine years. Then human intervention becomes hard to ignore. I have heard some wild theories about the money over the years. Such as…maybe the money bag came down a river further north and got snagged on a ship’s prop, dragging it UPRIVER, or an even wilder theory…that the flight path was off by at least six miles west and Cooper went into the Columbia near Tina Bar, or maybe over the river in the Portland area. But the fly in the ointment is that all the evidence available, all the testimony, points to Cooper jumping somewhere between Ariel and Amboy, WA. Maybe even as far south as the Woodland area, but that could be discounted if the FBI were more forthcoming about the parachute found in 2008.
One last thing for you and your readers. You have mentioned several times that the FBI ‘dismissed’ Christiansen as a suspect and I have three answers for that.
1) They only did that in early 2008, after the Geoff Gray article came out in NY Magazine on Christiansen. Our investigation into KC didn’t even begin for almost another 18 months, when Skipp Porteous first contacted me. And in early 2008, no one knew hardly a thing about Christiansen other than the Geoff Gray article. It was natural for the FBI to dismiss him, at least initially. But things do change sometimes.
2) When I asked the Seattle FBI in 2011-13 and later if KC had been dismissed by the FBI as a suspect, the FBI said no he had not. In fact, one reply said this: “Some in this (Seattle) office believe he’s a good suspect. Others believe there are better suspects…” (You can see the emails if you wish.)
3) We have some indications that the Seattle FBI *may* have contacted some of the witnesses we listed in the August 2015 report, after all. I am still working on this angle.
4) As I said in my recent interview, according to some very excellent witnesses, Special Agent John Jarvis out of Quantico has indicated that the real reason the FBI closed the Cooper case was because they now knew the identity of the hijacker, that the hijacker was dead anyway, and that he was none other than…you guessed it….Kenny Christiansen. He told that to three witnesses who work for the US government as civilian employees. All three hold current security clearances. The one who first came forward for the rest, ‘Troy B,’ is an engineer working in product development for the US Navy in the DC area. That interview last Friday in which Jarvis was quoted, the interview you took an arbitrary stand not to invite your forum members to participate in…is getting about 2,500 views a day now at YouTube.
Try to tell me you don’t have an anti-Blevins agenda. I know better, Dave. But it’s okay. I understand how it is with Kenny Christiansen. People get polarized about him. Either they feel very strongly he was Cooper…or they go the complete opposite on him. Hardly ever do I get a ‘maybe he was’ message.
How in the world would someone toss money in a river (to verify being alive, or throw off the trail) and hope a dredge would pickup the money, and then be found. did you think of that all by yourself? is that how Cooper figured this to work out, or did another agent fill you in?
Tell me, exactly when was they on his trail? was Kenny at the Red Carpet Inn with Duane. he tossed the money in the river (in a paper bag too)
The plane crossed the Columbia, no? the money was found downstream, no? no possible solution? did human intervention place pieces up to three feet deep in the sand? multiple levels of bills. that rules out a plant, or did Cooper bury pieces at different depths?
You Tube views, and shows don’t prove things. proof is what counts. you can have 10 million views, and it doesn’t prove anything. the guy with the skunk cam says he found Cooper bills, must be true, over a hundred thousand views? people in the comments believe it, so it must be true, no?
The FBI did not contact anyone Robert, stop with the “may have” more of your sugar coating. they skipped right over you and Lyle?
the Woodland area was the first area believed to be where the plane was, now, it’s possible the jump was as far south as Orchid.
The Amboy chute was not Coopers. this is not the first chute found. the FBI never claimed it was Wallings chute either, it was suggested by a reporter. all they said was it was possible. they didn’t have all the info.
I’m done with discussing things with you…you enjoy this, I don’t.
1) I never said I was SURE that the Seattle FBI talked to some of the witnesses we named in the 2015 report we sent them on Christiansen. I said…there are some indications they MAY have, and I am still working on this angle.
2) How do you know the Amboy chute wasn’t Cooper’s? Did the FBI give a reason why they said it wasn’t? No. Not to you, me, or the media. Yet in phone calls and emails with our office years later, they called it ‘evidence in an ongoing case.’ And where did the container and harness magically disappear to? Takes a human being to remove them and take them elsewhere. My personal opinion is that IF the chute IS Cooper’s…it was Cooper who removed them, buried the canopy to avoid detection, and then transferred the money from the bank bag (very noticeable) to the container, which is basically a backpack. (Not so suspcious) Remember the hijacker asked for the money in a backpack, not the bag he got, which is just like what armored car guards carry. I’m surprised your experts don’t ask those questions as well, because they make perfect sense.
3) The reason for the number of views on the recent interview available at YouTube is twofold. One, the show itself is very popular and they are linked all over the place. Second…because I had the guts to name the FBI agent who spilled the beans. You think it was an easy decision to do that? To basically claim the FBI has LIED to the whole country about the Cooper case? Not easy, I assure you. But it shows I’m not afraid to go public on a controversial point if I believe we have good evidence. If the FBI, or the agent himself, wants to deny what was said then we have detailed emails, names, places of employment, phone numbers and addresses of the witnesses. And full details on how all of that came about, i.e. where it happened, and when, and who was there. I call that damn good evidence. I didn’t just make all that up, and even Troy and his friends were nervous about the interview. I told them: “I won’t reveal your last names, but I will name the agent and the circumstances. If the FBI comes to me about it, I will release the emails and my phone notes to the FBI.” Troy’s wife is angry at him about the whole thing. She calls him a ‘whistleblower’. I call him courageous for coming forward.
4) Money into the river? Of course I don’t believe that Cooper intended for the money to sink to the bottom of the Columbia and get dredged up and buried. I think he hoped it would wash up on some beach and get found later. Who the hell knows? The only thing certain about the whole Tina Bar thing is that the money probably didn’t fall from the sky back in 1971, but somehow a portion of it ended up on the banks of the Columbia years AFTER the hijacking. Almost certainly after November 1976. Anything else is either guesswork or a theory.
5) You are right. The Seattle FBI did not contact me (or Lyle Christiansen) after I submitted the KC report to them in late July 2015. They did send me a message saying they had received it, though. Lyle, they would have no reason to contact. I told the FBI he didn’t know whether or not his brother was Cooper anyway. And I said the report was everything I knew on Christiansen and Geestman. As of today, even some of Geestman’s own family members believe he was involved in the hijacking.
This is what happens when you provide *some* folks investigating the Cooper case with intelligent and honest responses. They are so busy calling you a liar, or going the personal route, that they don’t know how to handle it. One thing you can count on from me. I will at least try to give it to you straight, even if you don’t agree, or have personal issues with me. As I’ve said many times about the Cooper case, there is so much BS surrounding it that you need wings to stay above it. So anything other than the truth is baloney. There is more of that going on DB Cooper than all the warehouses run by Oscar Meyer. 🙂
Beyond all the DB Cooper/Blevins is the Evil One/It Wasn’t KC/ hype, there are also people. I noticed you had not posted to Shutter’s forum in a while. So I just wanted to check in and make sure you are all right and everything. Hope you had a decent Christmas and at least did a little something over the New Year, even if it was just watching NFL games. I got a few things for Christmas. A CB setup for the truck, the Amazon Echo (‘Alexa’) which I haven’t even hooked up yet, and some outdoor gear, mostly footwear and coat and socks.
Over at the DBC Forum, they’re talking about setting up some kind of separate discussion spot for me and others who are not exactly popular there. I don’t need that. I have no interest in posting there, even if it were possible. I don’t hate Shutter, although I think sometimes he isn’t truthful with his own members regarding his relationship with me, which isn’t that much anyway except for some emails.
Look…as far as the Cooper case goes, I’ve already released the KC files, done the big interview with the Hagmanns’ where I reveal what that FBI agent said, and the active investigation into KC by me and the AB staff is pretty much over now. Our stuff is out there now, and I don’t see anything new coming unless someone from the Geestman family finally decides to go public. I am going to do my own Tina Bar money test – maybe – but I don’t think money tests will tell us (DB Cooper community-at-large) anything new.
It would be nice to know that YOU are doing okay, beyond DB Cooper. Nobody here dislikes you. Bryan, yes. Shutter, definitely yes. YOU, no. That’s because although I have sometimes differed with your interview methods, you never came after Gayla, myself, or even AB of Seattle in a personal way. I have to give you credit for that. The use of ‘Bobby,’ does not count. Our position on Bryan Woodruff is that he accepted a virtual TON of help, cash, labor, food, whatever help from AB and then used a couple of posts at Facebook to dump us the minute he got what he wanted. Gayla wants nothing more to do with he or the store. Nothing I can do about that. She turned over the AB debit card to me for Bryan, and we spent over $500 from it to help him. I won’t harp on that any further.
My main concern is that you are doing okay for 2017, etc. and still hanging around. Unlike many other people who I have interacted with in the Cooper case, you I have actually met, and I never saw you as a bad person. Stubborn maybe, but that’s all. And that is no big deal.
Recently, I finally just got tired of Shutter quoting me over at his website and making comments. So I permanently closed the AB Forum to guest views. It doesn’t matter anyway….we only have fourteen members, most of whom just lurk around anyway. And people can still register if they want. And if they don’t want, that is okay too.
Let me know if you can how your Christmas went and if you are okay. If you don’t want to do that, maybe you can post something up at the DBC forum and I will eventually see it there.
I’m planning a camping trip to do another video, but the damn weather is so cold right now I’ve had to postpone it for a while. This video will be strictly about the agent and Troy B, etc. I have heard we (AB) might get a credit at the end of the Travel Channel show coming next Wednesday. If you haven’t heard, it airs next Wednesday at 9PM. Don’t miss it.